I read that you trained a Westside type style before. What made you switch to your current style? Was it the lack of specificity? I found when I tried to train Westside that my form on the main lifts would really suffer. I also heard on a Jason Beck interview that he made great gains once he started using basic stuff.
Do you think Westside is best left for double ply lifters?
Another question off-topic-
I dont see any back work like rows, chins etc. Do you think the deadlift already works the back & there is no real carryover or is your back already strong and there is no need for you to do any chins, rows etc?
To be honest, my switch from a westside inspired program was gradual. The first thing I noticed is that I got really good at Good Mornings, but my squat and deadlift stayed the same. I thought, "Man, if doing good mornings makes my good morning better, why not do squats and deads to improve those lifts?" So that is what started the transformation. From there, the changes were more gradual. Plus I always liked and admired the hi frequency programs, but didn't know how to transition into it. RTS helps outline how that transition came about.
You asked: Do you think Westside is best left for double ply lifters? This is a touchy subject because so many people get severely butt-hurt over any percieved Westside-bashing. I should qualify my statements -- I have never trained AT westside, but I have read pretty much everything to come out of there in the last 10+ years. I don't even think Westside (as it's written) is ideal for double ply guys. It still is paying disregard to the principle of specificity. Granted, it's not as bad seeing as their "speed work" is really 80-90% work, but still that isn't optimal either. Max Effort work is GPP unless you're doing a squat/deadlift or a shirted bench. I think the thing that has made Westside so popular is that it's easy to follow. They have some great lifters, no doubt, but I highly doubt they are the "strongest in the world" at least by my personal definition. Even in double ply meets, the guys from BIG and other places are getting noticed as the strongest anywhere and they train highly specifically. But enough about that....
I have to admit that I've gotten plenty of my ideas from Louie. It's not the concepts that I disagree with -- it's the packaging. I just feel like there are some things that aren't optimal with that system.
-- Edited by Mike Tuchscherer at 16:12, 2008-09-07
In regard to back work, there should be a reason to train back. I look at it like this:
If I need lats to play a role in my bench, what exercise will work the lats most specifically to the bench? The Bench. Same with deadlift. I do feel that DL will improve lats and traps plenty. I can still do 15-20 pullups anytime I want, which is no small feat for a 270 pound man. The only thing I can attribute that to is the deadlift work I do.
Now, if there were some sort of glaring imbalance, then additional lat work may be required, but I've found that putting it in extra workouts suits me best. You haven't seen it in my extra work as of late, but back work will be back soon. I'm getting my external rotation back in check before I start doing things like Face Pulls and rows. Even so, I'll only be doing them in relatively small doses (~6 sets per week as opposed to 30+ for bench).
I guess the short answer is I think DL's do the bulk of it, but some rowing is good, too.
Mike i doubt very much you've ever bothered to apply yourself to westside long enough to have any true understanding of how to utilise the template correctly. If you had you would have learnt to make it work for you instead of wasting your time trying to recreate the wheel.
by the way, why don't the strongest raw lifter's in the world use westside? they don't. people are starting to realize the impracticality of the program and are going back to programming that is based on the big 3. if you follow brandon cambell, he has been using the boss barbell strength method, which has been prescribed by dan green. now assuming that dan green follows a similar program, it incorporates some of the same characteristics as the sample rts programs ive looked over. and dan green is ranked no.1 in the 220 lbs class and i believe in the 242 also. you work up to heavy top sets, then back down 5% for additional sets, and you stick with the big 3 and their variations. ive tried westside and the same thing happened to me, my good mornings got stronger, but my lifts stayed exactly the same. also dont try to say that "oh but louie simmons said you keep trying different exercises until you find what works for you." even if a different exercise has the ability to increase your lifts, why the hell waste time searching and improving whatever that exercise is? practice your lifts with technical efficiancy to build your weak points and improve neural muscular coordination. good mornings are a ****ing accesory lift. no one has a good morning competition. people need to get a grip and practice the big three and dont stray too far from that. work full range of motion and explosiveness. band and chain squats help geared lifters because their sticking point is not in the hole (where the suit takes over), its midway/lock-out. dont get me wrong, westside probably works great for geared lifters. im not disputing that. im disputing how they try to market the program like its the cure-all for everyone whos trying to get stronger, jump higher or run faster. just like crossfit. and we all know the deal with crossfit. so get real, stop being a groupie, and face facts. all you need to do is look at the older lifters and see how they worked out. Franco Columbo (650s/525b/750dl), bill kazmaier, jon cole, lamar gant. you think they had suits and bands and chains? and they can spank 90% of geared lifters raw. last thing, watch some of their squat videos. They rarely hit parallel.
