Reactive Training Systems

jamwithtupac · Veteran Member

lift in equipment all year round?

jamwithtupac · Veteran Member

im helping a friend with his bench shirt training and now Ive finished my comp, I was thinking of going back to raw but to get better in shirt, I should train more in it I guess, so thinking training in shirt along with him even though next comp is 6 months away

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

Currently, I train with gear probably 80% of the time. After a meet, I'll get out of my equipment for about a month or so. The reason I can do that is because I do enough volume to keep up my raw work during the year. If you're not doing enough volume in the week to train both... well... that's a tough situation to be in.

jamwithtupac · Veteran Member

well I sort of am doing enough volume to train both, changing routine to westside but training squat bench deadlift as the main lifts really,

so I could do shirted bench on ME day, and raw bench work on DE day,
and squat work, Ill train the raw for a period of time then add suit few weeks before comp.

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

IMO, here's a couple issues. Take it or leave it, you won't hurt my feelings.

Gearing up "a few weeks before" might be good enough to learn your gear so you don't bomb, but IMO it's not ideal and there's no way to KNOW it's not ideal unless you've seen it the other way.

When you consistently practice the way you compete, you notice little tiny unobservable nuances that make a difference in your lifts. It's like my stable shoes analogy. If you have never worn stable shoes, you don't see how it could be much better than what you've got. If you never have consistent practice in the lift, you'll never notice how much more technically proficient you can be. The limit of this is how much backup gear do you have. If you've got it, use it.

My other issue is with training "modified westside". There's not a fundamental problem there, just a problem with what that entails. How will you be managing the intensity of your training block? Same with stress? What will your GPP workouts consist of? There are plenty more questions, but these are three that a traditional Westside program doesn't address. In that sense, I feel it's not optimal. If you are modifying it in such a way where you can answer these questions, I'd say you're about 80% there.

I don't mean to be negative. I just don't like to see people disappointed by their training system.

jamwithtupac · Veteran Member

well my next major competition is in 6 months time in April, qualifiers for the BPC British, Ill be switching to double ply gear as it enables you to lift more so why not, my fed allows it

also the plan is to raw most squat and deadlift for another 3 months,then the last 12 weeks start getting use to squat suit to squat and deadlift in, so thats 12 weeks of equipment training before comp, surely thats enough really.

I plan to train bench press in shirt for majority of the weeks throughout the next 6 months, Im shirting up on Wednesday training and will do after that for a long period also

Yeah I notice the longer you train in equipment, you can IRON out weaknesses, however isnt strength better built training raw

Date: Oct 13, 2008

Posting from my phone...

It depends on a lot of stuff. How much training gear of what kind, how long you have vs how long you want your peaking cycle, which meet your coming off of with regard to your annual plan, etc. You're not necessarily doing it wrong, but is it optimal? I don't know because I'm not managing your training. That's just a question you have to ask yourself.

You DEFINITELY build stregth when training in gear. It's just specific to gear lifting. Just like training raw may or may not carry over to your equipped lifts. You have to program it correctly -- I have my doubts about the efficacy of constant geared ME work improving strength just as I have doubts about it being effective for raw lifting. It's not that different from any other movement.

jamwithtupac · Veteran Member

well I think the stronger you are raw, the stronger you'll be in equipment, but if you train raw, lift in similar way you will in equipment,

for example, train raw as close to the same stance you will in equipment,andy bolton does this, other powerlifters I know wear briefs everyworkout (in 2 ply fed) but I prefer not to, I know ed coan wore as minimum equipment as possible until lead up towards comp.

For bench shirt training, I feel shirt improves tricep strength a lot and helps a lot with raw benching, it was only a few months ago I was benching 110kg raw, now on 150kg raw, and I would say the shirt helped me add 10-15kg onto my raw bench press over a space of few weeks (though I am still very new to equipped lifting)

Ill be training from now on in a shirt everyweek just because my training partner is too for a comp soon, and plus I have the chance to learn the shirt more and plus I feel it would be better for me.

If you take the world champion equipped lifters, I think pretty much all of them would be world champions as a raw lifter, including you too Mike

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

I agree with you, but strength is highly specific. Just because it happens to carry over from one to the other doesn't mean it's optimal. For example, if you train your squat with one stance and get stronger, all things being equal, you're likely to get stronger in another stance as well, but that doesn't mean that you'll be reaching your potential with the alternate stance.

It's the law of specificity. The greater the variance from the contest lift, the less the carryover. That's why when I used to do good mornings all the time, I got very good at good mornings with little carryover to my contest movement. That's because they only develop potential in the contest movement -- not optimal result.

Think of it like this: If we have the 3 contest movements and classify everything else as assistance of some kind, the assinstance work only serves to increase the POTENTIAL for improvement. In some cases, it can improve the actual result, but not as much as it would if you treated it like a builder of potential.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should train only in gear. I'm saying that there are benefits to training in gear that you can't get anywhere else. It develops strength in the most specific ways, allows you to hone technique, and develops your proprioception with the contest movement. Raw lifting provides a base of strength, IMO injury prevention, bottom end strength, and so on. It all has it's place -- it's just determining where that place is that becomes the challenge.

I think we're more in agreement than I thought in the beginning. The cool thing is if your GPP is developed enough, you can train raw and equipped at the same time.

jamwithtupac · Veteran Member

Yeah I definetely agree to train in equipment to get stronger and hone technique,

How do you improve your GPP- I walk at least 1 hr a day, and way around the university campus to lectures etc, Ill probably start swimming once a week again, as my bodyfat is getting high, and want to get under 90kgs for the british bpc if possible.

my training programme at the moment is being updated to westside heres a sample

wednesday- ME Upper- heavy shirt with boards working to heavy triple, double or single to a board,assistance

Thursday- ME Lower- Heavy raw back squat, heavy deadlifts with the percentages you gave me

Sunday- DE Upper- close grip benching, 4 board press, assistance

Monday- DE Lower- this day is optional havent yet started this day as checking recovery- heavy box squats, or high rep back squats 8-10 rep sets.

Once GPP is really good, I think I can recover but want to make sure, I will add Monday session.

At the moment, I am pretty much training raw and equipped for the bench press, but only raw for squat and deadlift, I just feel more benefit from training in shirt more often than training in squat suit more often.

I WILL be using shirt, and titan boss suit for squat and deadlift around 12 weeks before comp as I want to be efficient and get the best out of it, and hopefully break some records

Binford · Senior Member

I actually have a question about raw and geared training together. If you were in a geared training cycle where your goal was to improve your geared strength. What would you do with your raw squatting during your intensity block, providing your intensity block is 3 weeks. Would you still go up and do some singles in certain weeks at 90-95% or considering its not your specific goal to improve yoru raw strength would you keep you raw work in the 80-90% range and save the 90% and up for geared work?

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

It depends on your capability.

For me personally, I know I can handle all my heavy lifts to be 90% in a given week, but there needs to be a lowering of intensity the following week. By that same token, if I push, say, my equipped stuff to 95%, then the raw stuff needs to be pulled back. If I don't, I'll be tired, beat up, weak, etc.
If you CAN handle it, I'd encourage you to push the intensity during an intensity block. If you can't handle it, then emphasize the equipped work.

Does that make sense to you?

Binford · Senior Member

I think it makes sense, your answer seems to be a little contradicting lol. So it seems you can handle the 90% range for both raw and equiped work in the same week as long as the intensity is pulled back the next week?

But if you push up your equiped work to the 95% and above range, your raw work may need to be pulled back to the 85% range maybe but not much lower considering its still and intensity block?

Does this make sense with what you were thinking?

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

Yes, you're on the right track.

The answer to your question is a little deeper than I went in the manual. Think of it like this:
The "Intensity Block" is made up of several weeks (in this case 3 weeks). Each week has an average intensity of it's own. When we're programming the intensity of each week, we choose the weekly intensity based on the block of training we're in. In this case, we're in an intensity block, so we want to pick Medium and High intensity weeks so the overall intensity for the block is relatively high.

Let's say in this case, the weekly intensities we chose were:
High
Medium
High

From experience, we know that, in order for a week to be "medium" intensity, the average intensity for the week needs to fall in a certain range. Same with "High" and "Low" intensities.

Now, when I said if I did raw and equipped work both at 90%, the following week needed to be lower intensity, that is essentially saying that for me, doing all that 90% work constitutes a High Intensity week, which, for me, needs to be followed by a reduction in intensity (medium). If I am in a programmed High Intensity week and I do 95% work for my equipped lifts, by necessity, the other lifts need to be ~85% or else I would be too high in my weekly intensity.

Hopefully that makes more sense. Let me know!

Binford · Senior Member

So it seems like really the plan is to balance your intensity around the 90% range during intensity blocks. So basically you can do geared squat at 90% and raw squat at 90%. Or geared squat at 95 and raw squat at 85 or the other way around? But if you go 95% on equiped and raw squat in the same week that might be a little too much?