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Post Info TOPIC: Recovery methods, grip strength and other questions.


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Recovery methods, grip strength and other questions.
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For Mike and anyone else.

Contrast baths (plunge pool/spa):
What ratio and times do people recommend.
I have been reading 1:1 with 1 minute periods.
but the posters at the recovery centre say 1 min hot, 30 seconds cold.

What does everyone else do?

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Grip:
how do people work their grip for deadlifting? IS deadlifting enough?

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What are your cardio guidelines. I was doing 5 times a week on the bike, which burnt me out...as well as made my hip flexors tight as hell.

Does anyone have any opinon on sled work, or prowler
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Epsom salt baths....
does anyone use them or recommend them? i have access to 10 kilo bags of the stuff for cheap.

If so, how often?
Is the contrast method better?



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I dont know much about the contrast baths or epsom salt bath because I have never done any of that.

As for the cardio I dont know if Mike has a specific guidline with his type of training but I know for myself its about 1-3 times a week. I try to set it up on off days for about 20-30 min. I find it helps keep the soreness away. I personally hate the bike so I stick to the treadmill and the stepmill but if I am really tired I do the eliptical. I find when I do to much it just seems like im in the gym all the time and that starts to ware on me after a while.

As for grip work it used to be a big prob with me to the point where I couldnt deadlift 600lbs because I would either lose it or i was concentrating so much on not losing it that my form would suffer and I just couldnt get the lift. Here are some of the exercises I have found helped alot to a point where now I can hold on to anything no prob even when its ripping the callases off my hands.

I would say the best exercise other than deadlifts was plate pinching. I havebig hands so I would just grab 2 45lbs plates and pinch them with my fingers until I dropped it and repeated that for 4-5 sets. I would work up to 2 45's then after the 4-5 main work sets I would grab another lighter weight and hold it for even longer.

Another exercise even though people might look at you is set up 2 olympic bars in a cage place the weight on the bar and stand between the 2 bars then grap them and try to hold on till you cant anymore. The long olympic bar makes balance a challenge and as you get better and you start adding more weight its a nice test. I used the same protocol as the plate pinching in terms of sets.

I did do some hammer curls and pinwheel curls as well as reverse curls but I gave those up and stuck with the 2 above for about 2-3 months and now I dont do them anymore and deadlifts are more than enough for my grip work.

hope that helps a little.

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I like Nick's analysis of grip stuff. I've never had grip issues -- deadlifting (especially for reps) has always been enough for me. Even so, those seem like fantastic suggestions.

As for passive recovery modalities...
I'd say with the contrast stuff, especially if you're doing baths, that 1 min hot, 30 sec cold is a good suggestion. My personal favorite is like this: Steam room or sauna for 7 minutes, then cold shower for 3 minutes. Repeat 3 times. I love that one!

I've never noticed anything appreciable with the epsom salt bath, so that's something you'll have to try on your own.

As for the cardio... since you're working coaching through me anyway, I'd be happy to program it for you if you like. But if not, here's what I am learning about now...

If you can find a place that does a real Anaerobic Threshold test, that would be ideal. If not, here is a way to obtain a rough approximation...

220-age = Max HR
Max HR - Resting HR = HR Reserve
HR Reserve * (85% to 90%) = AT Reserve
AT Reserve + Resting HR = Anaerobic Threshold (AT)

From there, you can find the following zones...
Recover work = 60-70% of AT
Cardiac work = 68-86% of AT
Aerobic Maintainence = 84-94% of AT
Aerobic Development = 94-102% of AT
Anaerobic Maintainence = 100-108% of AT
Anaerobic Development = 105-114% of AT

I got the information for these zones from Landon Evans. I'm quite sure he wouldn't endorse my method of determining Anaerobic Threshold. I'll concede it's a rough approximation, but better than nothing.

As far as what to do with these reccomendations, do whatever you want. Personally, I do circuits wearing a HR monitor.

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Thanks guys.


So you feel the sauna is the greatest option?
Have you used plunge pools?
Do you feel that the sauna was the most effective


As far as the grip goes, I am going to try holding the bar as long as I can on the top sets, as well as the plate pinches


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I have never used a plunge pool, so it could be better. I'm just saying my experience with the sauna has been very positive.

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Sympathetic overreached

- Observation: Impaired performance, lack supercompensation, restlessness, irritability, weight loss, increased resting heart rate, increased blood pressure, retarded recovery

- This athlete will need to perform a high volume of low intensity work

- This athlete is also to perform the following recovery methods: Stimulate appetite through alkaline foods (Milk, fruit, fresh vegetables), Avoid stimulatory substances (coffee), Small amounts of alcohol is permitted, increased quantities of B vitamins, physiotherapy, outdoor swimming, bathing 15-20 minutes at 35-37 degrees (No sauna), Cold showers in the morning and brisk toweling, Light and rhythmical exercises, climactic therapy, Ultra-violet therapy, Change the environment alternate areas of various altitudes, cardiovascular activity with HR @ 120-130 BPM



Parasympathetic overreached

- Observation: Impaired performance, lack supercompensation, depression, apathy, sleepy, constant weight, Low resting heart rate, low blood pressure, supressed HR exercise profile, supressed lactate exercise profile, supressed neuro-muscular excitability (decreased broad jump / vertical jump performance)  

- This athlete will need to perform a low volume of high intensity work

- This athlete is also to perform the following recovery methods: Favors acidifying foods (cheese, meat, cake, eggs), Vitamins B & C groups, Physiotherapy, Alternate Hot showers (3 minutes) and cold showers (1 minute) repeat this 3 times, Sauna at medium temperatures alternated with short cold showers, Intensive massage, Vibration Massage, EMS and TENS, Epson Salt Bath, Active movements, climactic therapy, sea and sea level altitude, preferred bracing, brisk walk on a bark trail in the woods, Resisted Breathing, Luke warm shower (not hot will increase inflammation), Cardiovascular activity with HR @ 120-130

I don't know if I subscribe to all of these recommendations.  Most research fails to provide positive chemical changes in most recovery methods.



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Grip: 

For heavy work, I like farmer's holds for 30-60 seconds.  Farmer's typically have a slightly bigger diameter than a standard bar, so you get some extra work there.

For speed work, I like one handed deadlifts with the regular bar.  Move at a good clip with these.

Cardio:

I can't use a bike either, hip flexors get too much abuse.  I use hiking / walking as my cardio, with sled work and other dragging tossed in depending on the intensity of the conditioning cycle.   You can do too much dragging - that is, it starts to eat into your recovery - but it's really hard to do that with walking,  as long as you don't do it for 3hr/day or something silly like that.

-- Edited by BobW at 14:54, 2009-01-01

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Thanks Landon, that makes sense.

Let me just make sure Ive got this completely right in principle:
Sympathetic overreaching is typically a result of putting the body in a sympathetic-dominant state too much
Parasympathetic overreaching comes from too much acute stress on the body, resulting in an out-of-tolerance parasympathetic shift
Is that pretty much right?

If thats correct, it stands to reason that, with the way most PLs currently train, Parasympathetic overreaching is more likely than sympathetic overreaching, which would explain my positive experience with sauna. It also explains why jumping in the sauna immediately post-workout (sympathetic dominant) sounds aweful. But then again, so does a hot bath (35 degrees C is 95 degrees F), so do you have any insight on why the difference?

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No, most speed/power/strength athletes will experience sympathetic overreaching.

Think sympathetic as intensity overreaching. Parasympathetic as volume overreaching. This is to simplistic, but generally it explains the difference between the two.

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for grip I like to do this little workout once a week...

Captains of Crush Grippers

#2 gripper: 10 singles or 5 doubles each hand
#1 gripper: 12 - 16 seconds static hold each hand
#1 gripper: 12 - 16 reps each hand

sometimes I like to go for prs in reps or time for static holds

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