Reactive Training Systems

Little D.J. · Member

got a question w/ the deadlifts....

TRON · Senior Member

Hi there
I hope the following will help.

Since you stated you were a high hip puller, with your shoulders forward, I am assuming you started your pull with the bar relatively close to your shins?

One thing you may wish to do to get your legs more involved in the start of the pull, and also to keep your shoulders back is:

- start off with the bar further away from your shins, at least starting the bar mid foot.
- as you pull the bar will naturally move in closer to your body

Disclaimer: I am definitly not the strongest guy going, nor would I take my advice if I was someone else

-- Edited by TRON on Wednesday 15th of April 2009 06:04:33 PM

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

I think Chris's advice is good.

Also, everybody pulls differently. Can you post a video of your new style? That might help a lot.

Little D.J. · Member

thanks for the advice guys!

TRON- actually when i used to do the high hip shoulders forward, the bar was out in front. I had horrible form man, i just bent over and picked the bar up! But im definetly gonna try to keep it out a little in front now. I just literally cant let my shoulders fall forward AT ALL. and my upper back is kind of weak, so ive been rowing like crazy.

Mike- yea i actually can get a video up. I wont be doing deads "heavy" until saturday i may get up to like 495 or 515, ill have tony take a vid of the form and ill post it up on youtube or something. So it should be up by saturday eveing or something. I just need to figure out a way to get some power out of using just my legs!
Here is my current routine now so you can check it out see how u guys like it.

Its a 3 day a week right now, sunday i do some stuff like neck, calves, rotator cuffs and abs....

TUESDAY
squat to a single- 4 week rotation (week 1 is a suit and wraps, right now is suit bottoms cuz of the shoulder, week 2 is a pause squats, week 3 is a belt and knee wraps, week 4 is belt only)
bench press for a few sets of 10
deadlift no belt- a few sets of 5
barbell rows- 3 sets
rear delts- 3 sets
side delts- 3 sets
tricep pushdowns- 3 sets
dumbell curls- 3 sets
Cardio

THURSDAY
bench to a single
hi bar pause squats no belt- sets of 5
rdl no belt- sets of 6-8
Cable rows- 3 sets
Rear delts- 3 sets
side delts- 3 sets
decline tricep extensions- 3sets
hammer curls- 3 sets
cardio

SATURDAY
deadlift to a single
paused bench - 5's
close stance squats- 3-5's
barbell front raises- 3 sets
pec flies- 3 sets
tbar rows- 3 sets
side delts - 3sets
curls- 3 sets
cardio

but yea i should have a video up by saturday.....

Little D.J. · Member

hey mike been watching ur vids and am trying to mimick your deadlift style....i notice even with the 805 vid u posted ur shoulders dont ever come forward at all. That is what i need to do, mine fall way forward when im doing heavy weight. been DOING lots of rows and rear delt work to try to fix that....i know this sounds so ridiculous to even ask, but how do u keep ur shoulders back liek that?

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

I'm not sure what you mean exactly. I do let my shoulders go forward so it shortens my ROM. If you mean upper back, That may be a little different. I'm really anxious to see a video of your pull.

Either way you cut it, the best way to fix technique problems (as I'm learning right now) is to humble yourself, realize you might not be as strong as you thought (this one was hard for me), and lower the weight and do it right. Not an easy thing, but it makes you a better athlete in the long run.

Date: Apr 17, 2009

thanks mike
yea i have come to the realization and perfectly fine with that! I will definetly lower the weights for now and i know i will be weaker, but i will hopefully get stronger in the long run. Im only going to have a video of around 500-515ish, as with the shoulder there is no way i can pull over 600 right now. Ok thanks mike vid will be up tommorow some time.

Dano · Veteran Member

Its okay to have the shoulders ahead of the bar...thousands of Olympic lifters are doing it all over the world on a daily basis! That being said, you are going to be weaker and your form/technique is going to feel off until you adjust.

Just give it time and do what you said: stick with what's going to be good in the long run.

Little D.J. · Member

thanks dano
I know i CAN have my shoulders over the bar, but the point is with my shoulder injury I CANT keep them over the bar lol! I will mess up my shoulder again big time if my shoulder hangs forward during deadlifts at all. Im trying to figure out the best way to pull a deadlift even if my shoulders have to stay retracted throughout the whole lift and never fall forward...

Little D.J. · Member

mike,

got a video of 515 for today, tony will post it up when he gets home.
Im just going to stop doing heavy deads for a while, anything past 455 hurts the shoulder, so i gotta let this thing heal for now, but ill still do some romanians and stiff legs in the 315-455 range.....

Dano · Veteran Member

You know what, DJ? I think you are in a good position to make some changes right now. Your injury is forcing a form change, which may be positive in the long run. Don't worry about not pulling heavy weights. Staying with strict form and getting used to a new pulling style will pay off big time in the end. Hell, I could pull 500 any time, anywhere as a 169-pound Olympic lifter and I never pulled much over 300, except for power shrugs and the rare "break-away" deadlifts.

Little D.J. · Member

thanks dano, i actually do agree with you 100%. Besides the fact that im doing tons of rows, tons of squats, still doing stiff leg deads and romanians deads, i dont htink ill lose much if any off my deadlift. Im gonna probably not pull heavy for another 8 weeks or so, give this shoulder time to heal, im planning on working up to 455 for a few singles each week just to work out this new form and keep the form good for now ya know. thanks for the advice man, the vid will be up i guess whenever tony puts it on utube

Tony Parrella · Senior Member

heres the vid- personally i dont think anything looks wrong with it but its good to get more than one opinion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpeKEea4xgo

Date: Apr 19, 2009

thanks for posting tony.....

yea that actually didnt look too horrible excpet the fact that it hurt like heck hahahha! my upper back is just too underdeveloped for now, gonna take some time, i gotta build it up

Dano · Veteran Member

How much weight was that, DJ? Didn't look too bad for having a shoulder injury like that.

Only thing I noticed is that you kind of went into a "stiff-legged" pull a little early then got your knees under the bar, which some judges could possibly consider a "hitch"...

I wouldn't necessarily call it that but I got a lot of **** from my farily experienced training partners when I first started powerlifting because I always did a double-knee bend when deadlifting. This was very ingrained from years of Olympic lifting and fine for that sport but powerlifting judges don't like it.

And I don't know if your upper back is "underdeveloped". I read this a lot on forums nowadays, but I don't think its always true, especially if you are a fairly strong, experienced lifter. Pulling with the scapulae locked back and down is usually enough to develop sports-specific upper back strength. I hate to keep throwing out Olympic lifters as an example, but very, very few use direct upper back work to develop the ability to hold the scaps together.

A suggestion would be to use sub-max weights with emphasis on a tight upper back, leg drive, and lots of speed/power. You can get away with a lot more volume this way and develop the skill and sports-specific strength you might be looking for. The influence of so-called "Westside" training has convinced many people that you NEED all of these extra movements when that is not always the case.