I'm new to this board, there's some great info here and I absolutely love the book !
I have a question though. Over the past months, I've been having great succes with high frequency benching. Benching four times a week with high volume took my bench from 325lbs to 375lbs in just over three months. I didn't even know about Reactive Training then yet, I just went by feel doing a lot of sets and keeping a few reps in the tank (so unknowingly I trained at RPE 8-9)
After reading the book and this forum, and because of the bench succes, lately I've been trying to train higher frequency for lower body as well and set up a decent allround program. Now I expected this would be tough in the beginning, so I started out really light as a sort of preparation/conditioning phase. However, I still find it hard to recover, especially deadlifting more than once per week is quite hard. I never had any problems recovering from a bench session though. In the past I have squatted 3 times per week using a Bill Starr-ish H/L/M template, and that went well also. But the deadlifts seem to take a lot from me. As a result, my squat & bench get stronger, but my deadlifts seem to stall.
Are there any other people here who have the same problem ? Any suggestions on what to do about it ?
Also, it is emphasized in the book to have a balanced number of "slots" for the upper and the lower body - six each. But I've read articles by Sheiko that suggest training bench up to 8 times per week and squat and dead only 2 times. Any thoughts on this ?
Maybe I should also post the template I've been doing
monday squat + chains / medium grip bench / safety bar squats wednesday bench + chains / reverse band deadlift / incline bench thursday deadlift / floor press / box squat sunday bench / deadlift from blocks / reverse band bench press
For what it is worth, I found deadlifting multiple times a week to be rough as well at the start. I really had to give it a little time for my body to acclimatize to it.
For some reasons, heavy deadlifting is either explicitly more taxing and/or it takes just more time to recover from (If the lather is to be true, I still have no clue why) compared to other lifts like squats and bench press. To some extent this applies to every serious-deadlifting trainee, regardless of the law of individual differences.
No matter which way you put it, the deadlift seems to be the least suitable lift to use in a high frequency mode. This especially applies to trainees that have past beyond the intermediate stages of training development. (Unfortunately you have done so as well Steven...)
From once a week at most to maybe up to once each 2 weeks (myself) or even more infrequent for some, seems necessary for optimal recovery and subsequent progression in the deadlift over time. I've never worried about this phenomenon, because using a higher squatting frequency in general has, besides obvious advantages for the squat itself, great carryover to my deadlift.
Apart from that, light speed DL or clean/snatch sessions in between heavy DL days, might also be more beneficial within the perspective of high frequency cycles.
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you, Steve.
I would suggest you modify your template. You have 3 heavy deadlift movements (Deadlift, reverse band, and from blocks). I would suggest that one of those become a supplemental movement such as SLDL or RDL or even Good Mornings. And as with other supplemental lifts, this would be trained with higher reps. Additionally, try to avoid deadlifting on consecutive days until you get used to it. Check the volume of your training to make sure your lower body volume (squats and deadlifts combined) is not too high.
There are plenty of Sheiko programs that, along with high bench frequency, have a high lower body frequency as well. Remember, you train upper and lower body on every lifting day in a Sheiko program. The volume distribution may vary, but the frequency is essentially the same.
Regarding Deadlifts being more taxing than other lifts (to the point where some can only recover if they pull once per month)... that's not the deadlift's fault. If pulling is that taxing on you (more to the once-per-month crowd), then you are out of shape or mentally weak. Some will surely take offense to that, but I don't feel like sugar-coating it this morning. Look... Deadlifting is no more taxing than any other lift. How do I know? I have tests to prove it. Not generic "how do you feel now" test, but actual physiological data on how the body responds to training. It's not any more taxing on the CNS than other lifts (so far Squats seem to be the most taxing, but only marginally so). It doesn't tax other body processes more than other lifts either. Of course there will always be individual differences, but someone who has a lower tolerance than once per week for pulling is either an anomaly or their program is not set up to tolerate more frequent deadlifting. So in my opinion, "deadlifting is more taxing than the other powerlifts" is a myth. Right there with "90%+ lifts are super-taxing on the CNS". I have physiological data to back up it up. Landon Evans has even more physiological data to back up these viewpoints than I do. Then Eric Talmant and his coach Dave Bates have literally tons of practical experience training guys with high frequency programs. These programs don't feel sorry for you if you can't recover from pulling. And their success record is hard to argue with, to be honest.
Sorry for the rant and I hope no one takes lasting offense to anything I said. This just seems to be a really stubborn training myth that won't die.
"program is not set up to tolerate more frequent deadlifting"
If It's true that the deadlift is not physically more taxing than the other main lifts, I think think this quote is essentially the reason why people stall on the deadlift in many cycles.
For some reason I still do not fully understand, I seem to be able to put much more effort into the deadlift, both mentally and physically, as with the squat for example. Perhaps it's as simple as "the deadlift fits me better". Of course this has nothing to do with de deadlift being more taxing, but just me using the deadlift in a more taxing way, which simply accounts for the longer recovery time and/or less tolerance for training the DL more frequently.
"Sorry for the rant"
Please don't apologize and keep on ranting Mike, it always produces interesting stuff!
I think you're right. It's easy to forget that the deadlift draws heavily from the same musculature as the squat and it all draws from the same pool of reserves as the bench (and everything else). So balancing it all out takes some effort and ultimately you have to decide where to put the emphasis. Just keep in mind that for many people (most), where you put the most work is where you'll get the mot return. Now obviously, that has a point where it stops, but most know that.
Thanx for the suggestions and interesting thoughts ! I modified the template so that the lower body has more rest days and I switched some deadlift movements for goodmornings and straight leg DL's.
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