Reactive Training Systems

SWaits · Newbie

RE: Big Mike's Training Log

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

I suppose I have invested quite a bit of myself in these training ideas, but don't feel like I'm angry with your or frustrated with you -- it appears that you and I probably agree more than we disagree. I appologize if my previous entry came off bad.

Regarding the lifts in the 90% range and the bench press -- a previous poster put up an email from Sheiko himself that says he reccommends that all bench pressing be done from a raw maximum, even if equipment was used. That is the background for my comment.

Multi ply lifters do get benefit from the added ply -- I agree with you. But, it is naive to think that is the only reason. I disagree with many training methods used by multiply lifters, but one thing they (collectively) tend to do very well is master their equipment to get the most carryover. This includes technique. If you aren't sure about this, then I sincerely request you do some more research in this end. These guys master the equipped technique much more so than single ply guys.

I will also disagree with you that raw lifting serves no benefit if it is differing from the contest technique. Even Sheiko programs have supplemental and developmental SPP exercises. Why? Because there is added benefit from exercise variation. In the case of an equipped lifter, raw lifting (i.e. a variation) is important regardless of technique differences because it develops his SPP.

Your suggestion regarding the modification of Sheiko is precisely what frustrates me. What you're saying is to basically pick the right program... what if there ISN'T a 'right program' for the individual I'm trying to train? For example, I'm working with a guy now who has tried the "right" sheiko program for his needs and got nothing. He liked the technique refinement, but it got him no strength. He liked the strength he gained from Westside, but he had no technique refinement. So what's the answer for him? And it's impractical to say, "well, you didn't do it right" because these are this man's honest experiences. They cannot be discounted. The answer for him is a CUSTOMIZED PROGRAM. Plain and simple.

Sheiko is derrived from foundational principles, I agree. But it 1) is written hard-coded and 2) it is a base program that must be modified to fit the lifter's needs. This defines it as a written base-program.

And here's an important point to consider -- perhaps you should question the Russian research more thoroughly. Russian research was developed to train a large number of people and produce a world champion. That's it. However, this differs vastly from our personal objectives, which is to take ONE lifter and train him as close to his limit potential as possible. In the Russian system, if Sergi didn't get stronger, he was left to go work in the factory. As long as the system produced a world champion, it didn't matter if it broke everyone else (clearly hyperbole, but it proves the point). But I don't want to be broken. So, I use the Russian research as a guide (because I concede that it is probably mostly right for most people) and modify it to fit my own needs. That's all I'm hoping anyone else does.

jwzrd · Veteran Member

briangodsen wrote:
If you think this forum is great, you should buy the RTS Manual. There are many training methodologies out there, and Sheiko (and variations thereof) are certainly powerful ones. That's the best part about RTS. You can use the principles involved and apply them to any training methodology. The key is that it takes many years and a great deal of trial and error to adapt a style (or styles) of training to best suit your needs. The beauty of RTS is that the heuristics for this adaptation are described in great detail, yet with surprising simplicity. You learn how optimize your training in a fraction of the time. The only limit is your ability to understand and implement the procedures that Mike lays out. The manual is worth its weight in Gold. No matter how you train, you will benefit from what it has to offer.

-- Edited by briangodsen at 17:09, 2008-11-26

I am very interested in that manual but I don't own a credit card so I cannot buy it. I'll see what I can do though. I'm very much interested in reading that manual.

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

Sorry I've been away for so long. I have been working like crazy. Things should be a little more normal now, so here's my training for the past week or so.

Thursday BDB
Reverse Band Bench +90c- 75x3, 80x2, 85x3, 85x2, 75x2
455x3 @8
485x2 @8
520x2 miss 3 @10
520x3 @9.5 (26m)

Sumo DL- 75x3 80x2 85x3 85x2 75x2
575x3 @8
615x2 @8 easy
650x3 @8.5
660x3 @9 (still pretty easy)
575x2 @8 (38m)

BTN Press- x6, 20-24 NL
145x6 @8
160x6 @8
170x6 @9
175x6 @9 (14m)

Total Training Time: 115min

So this benching today was crappy (as it has been all this week). Not much else to say about it other than that.
Sumo DL was actually really good. I set a 20 pound PR in this lift today, which is unheard of for me. Im sure its a lot of movement efficiency, but I think I will take a good look at how my sumo pull is doing and if I want to continue to work with it. Its pretty dang encouraging so far.
BTN Press was pretty good. Its been the only pressing movement that has been that way so far this week.

Saturday SBD
Reverse Band Squat +180cc- 75x3, 80x2, 85x3, 85x2, 75x2
535x3 @7.5
575x2 @8
615x3 @8.5
625x3 @9 (NICE!)
555x2 @8 (39m)

Bench (thumb from smooth)- 75x3 80x2, 85x3, 85x2, 75x2
385x3 @8
405x2 @8
430x3 @10
355x2 @8 (22m) Cut it there b/c my bench has been overworked

Seated Zercher GM- x6, 20-24 NL
225x6 @8
245x6 @9
250x6 @9
235x6 @8 (25m)

Total Training Time: 114min

The squats today went great. I hit another big PR this time with a 16 pounder. Things are progressing here very well.
As good as this week has been lower-body wise, its been that bad upper-body wise. Missed another PR today. Frustrating.
The Seated Zercher GMs are very tough. Definitely a gut-check exercise if you do them right.

Week 3 High Stress / Low Intensity
Tuesday SBB
Olympic Squat- 70x3, 75x3, 80x2x2, 85x1x3, 80x2x2
525x3 @7
565x3 @8
595x2 @8.5
595x2 @8 closed stance in a hair
630x1 @8
630x1 @9
630x1 @9.5 (buried it too much)
595x2 @8.5
595x2 @8 (48m)

3ct ISO MIO Bench- 70x3, 75x3, 80x2x2, 85x1x3, 80x2x2
335x3 @7
365x3 @7
385x2x2 @8
405x1 @7
405x1 @8
405x1 @7.5
285x2 @7.5
385x2 @8 (34m)

Flat Back Floor Press- x6, 25-30 NL
365x6 @8.5
385x6 @8.5
395x6 @9
365x6 @8 (17m)

Total Training Time: 132 min

Todays training was actually very good. I think the additional day off really helped to clear out some residual fatigue. The squats went well. No PRs were attempted, but with this kind of volume, I held my ground very well.
The bench work was actually good for once. I wasnt able to attempt any PRs in the ISO MIO, but the weights I did were flying around. The Flat back floor press was a 10 pound PR. Thats very promising considering I flat out missed weight last week.
All in all, a good session. Lots of volume today.

-- Edited by Mike Tuchscherer at 19:13, 2008-12-03

JordanLinteris · Senior Member

Hey Mike. I tried to log onto this site from work but the IP was banned. Some guys at work told me they posted some retarted garbage as a joke (not too funny) about some of the guys on this forum. I think I saw it on evans wall and I never clued in that it came from the comp I was using. Anyways can you unblock it so i can post and stuff from work, and I will make sure the site is untouched from the dip****s at work. Thanks.

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

That should fix it.

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

Wednesday DBS
Deadlift +90c- 70x3, 75x3, 80x2x2, 85x1x3, 80x2x2
535x3 @8
575x3 @7.5
615x2x2 @8
655x1x3 @8.5
615x2 @8
615x2 @9 (43m)

Ply Press +180pp +90c- 70x3, 75x3, 80x2x6
225x3 @8
245x3 @7.5
260x2 @8
260x2x2 @7.5
260x2 @8
260x2x2 @7.5 (32m)

SSB 11 Squat- x6, 25-30 NL
385x6 @8
405x6 @8
425x6 @9
405x6 @7.5 (23m)

Total Training Time: 133min

Deadlifting felt really good today. It feels like forever since Ive pulled anything, so I was kind of excited to do this one. The weights moved pretty good, too.
I finally got the weights dialed in on the Ply work this week. Its unusual that it takes this long, but this exercise has been erratic. Oh well, Im good on it now.
SSB work was solid again today. I made another solid jump in weight, so thats always a positive.
Overall, things are feeling pretty good.

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

I'm not having any problems...

JordanLinteris · Senior Member

I am through my comp as well Mike. I need to go to the bottom of the page and click on the "newest first" link. If I dont do this it says that you have new messages on page 16, but it comes up as being blank.

Grant Gavran · Senior Member

how come i cant see any posts on page 16. is it just me.

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

I had that problem yesterday, but it cleared today. Let me know if you're having issues in a day or two.

KTW · Member

It seems that the problem people have with every training methodology is that they believe that is a specific set of concrete guidelines that must be followed in order for the program to work. I think what some of the posters in this debate fail to see is that Mike is not saying that Sheiko does not work or is not a great system, but that parts of it do not work for his style of lifting. What I gather from RTS is that it is more of a mindset than anything. It is systematic in a sense that there are criteria you use to modify your programming based on bodily reactions, but in no way is strict template. Although I am not training for powerlifting at the moment, I use the RTS mindset with my training for cycling. A lot of what I do is completely counterintuitive to how some sprinters train, but not being confined to dogmatic routines has allowed me develop a personal system that has enabled me to match the skill level of much more experienced riders in a short period of time. I discovered from talking to them that they fall into the same track most weightlifters do- they think only one principle can work and it can only be used in one way.

Good work Mike. Saw that you are doing the RAW meet, that should be pretty interesting.

MichaelG · Senior Member

Hey Mike I was able to re-register like you said and get on here. Looking forward to seeing how you do at the Raw Unity meet, good luck with your training and keep it up.

Nick Morneau · Senior Member

Hey Mike is their a reason why when you are going raw you dont wear a belt. I understand the wraps because that gets long.

Have you found that no belt has been positive or irrelevent

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

Well, typically raw work for me is general-specific relative to my contest lift. Now that I'm going to do a raw meet, you'll see me put the belt on soon.

I feel that if the purpose of the exercise is to strengthen certain muscles, then those muscles should be unsupported. If the goal is to perfect a skill, then it should be close to contest format.