Reactive Training Systems

MikeGagne · Senior Member

Do you consider knee wraps Raw or no?

MikeGagne · Senior Member

Crap I forgot to specify, Im talking about using knee wraps when squatting. Raw or not raw?

Nick Morneau · Senior Member

No.

But do I think they should be used. YES. there is no need to place the extra strain on your knees when the equipment is there to help you. And I dont think they give as much in comparison to suits and shirts.

I consider it safety equipment similar to a belt which is allowed in raw meets

BobW · Senior Member

IMO, "RAW" means no supporting gear - no belt, no wraps, no suit. But, IANAPL, I'm a strongman, so...my opinion doesn't mean much, and is geared towards strongman.

I think you should train raw (in my definition) to build up overall strength, especially core strength. But, I also think that you should train and use whatever equipment is permitted in your competition. It's a question of finding the right balance for your body and your sport.

Nick U · Senior Member

I have started wearing the inzer knee tubes during training to reduce the strain like Nick said and I agree with that reasoning, but I do get alot out of traditonal wraps. up to 75 pounds in fact but I have really small legs so I can get alot of turns on the wraps most powerlifters with tree trunks can't.

Date: May 11, 2009

nah i dont think its raw....

for me raw consists of belt, wrist wraps, thats it...

i wear knee wraps every other week on my heavy squat movement, but i dont consider it raw squatting however i dont consider it geared squatting either!?!?!?

MikeGagne · Senior Member

I guess knee wraps arent Raw then. I was kinda divided on it. I thought they're the same as using wrist wraps on bench in a way. But its on the part thats lifting the weight on squat, so I guess that would make it not Raw. Yeah its hard to think of knee wraps the same way as a suit. Everybody knows those suits will get you more weight than without one. I realize you have to know the suits and train them. I realize no suit gives you anything. But lets be realistic, Ryan Kennelly is a bench machine. He did 1075 with a suit but I believe to my knowledge hes never done 600+ raw. Hes one of the best benchers ever IMO but Id be happier with a 700 raw bench then a 1075 equipped. I believe Henderson is the only one to legitly get a 700 raw bench. Many have said Mendelsohn's was a touch and go and no pause. I've never saw it but there was much debate about that in some of the powerlifting magazines. Well anyway thanks everybody for answering my question. Take care.

Mike Tuchscherer · Guru

I'm fairly certain Ryan has done 600 for reps, but your point is still valid.

briangodsen · Senior Member

Along the same line, what are your thoughts regarding wearing a belt? This isn't a question of what is/isn't considered Raw, but rather what is appropriate/safe when training. When I first started training, I was completely against wearing a belt, as I felt wearing it would eventually lead to a weak midsection. Then I pulled a 180 and started wearing it as a 'safety' measure (but really to allow me to lift more weight). In my personal experience, the lifters who have the strongest midsection are the ones who do the most beltless training, but where I see the most injuries occur is when doing beltless training. I'd be curious to know what everyone else's experience has been.

MikeGagne · Senior Member

Hey Brian. Thanks for responding. Thanks to everybody else too. I personally use a belt whenever I am benching, deadlifting or squatting heavy. I wont wear it for my first 2 or 3 sets when Im warming up with weights like 135 pounds, 225 pounds, and even 275 pounds but once I get to the weight that is heavy for me I put it on. I guess some raw federations do not allow a belt even from what I have read in Powerlifting USA magazine.I personally think that is a bit extreme and would think twice before doing a meet like that. I personally am cautious about doing heavy weights with no belt because I have had severe lower back pain when I havent used one when squatting and deadlifting. Youre right about developing a powerful midsection by not using a belt but I think weighted abdominal exercises can make up for using a belt on heavy sets. You are right about the midsection. Almost every really powerful person I have met has a really big midsection. Not a big fat one but a big muscled one.

-- Edited by MikeGagne on Wednesday 13th of May 2009 11:39:18 PM

MikeGagne · Senior Member

Ryan may have done 600+ raw in training but according to his December Powerlifting USA interview the most hes gotten to date raw at a contest is 600 even. The interviewer acknowledged hes done 650+ in training.

Date: May 15, 2009

Though this is certainly off topic, I want to just chime in on the whole Kenelly thing.

Yes, I think the most he has done raw in competition has been 600, but I think that was several years ago. There is a video somewhere of him warming up before a meet, he worked to 585 raw and it looked no different than 225. He is AT LEAST a 700 lb bencher, there is no way he is getting 4-500 pounds out of a shirt. If you are technically proficient in a shirt, you will get ~50% out of it. So a 500 lb raw guy could hit 750, and a 700 lb guy could hit 1050, you do the math.

Of course, this is a rule of thumb, but generally works pretty well. I am at 365 raw and ~550 multiply.

JordanLinteris · Senior Member

I seriously doubt he is a 700 bencher at all. Kennely and Mendelson have been upping the bench records for a long time and have been good competition for each other. The raw record of 715 (although it did look touch and go) is probably the best feat of strength in bench history. Much better than any Triple ply- gear whore lift. If Kennely was able to do 716, it would have been done long ago. I have seen an easy 635 online and read of him and Jeremy Hoornstra both hitting a gym pr best of 675 pounds. It seems that Mendelson is stronger, and Kennely is better with gear.

JordanLinteris · Senior Member

Oh, and my thoughts on knee wraps being raw... No. I used to believe them to be raw. That was until I felt the difference in a heavy lift with wraps on. A lifter on youtube (Eric Lilliebridge I think), some freak 18 year old lifter that squats 740 with wraps says he gets 70 pounds out of them. That seems more that for safety.

MikeGagne · Senior Member

I get a lot out of my wraps as well Jordan. I wouldnt be suprised if they could get me 50 pounds. I bought the 2.5 meter kind so I can wrap a lot around my knee so its well covered.