Reactive Training Systems

bkipp wrote:

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Ok, sorry guys. You caught me being sloppy and I should know better. I was assuming caloric surplus with the protein to fat storage. I will be more accurate and clear in the future.

Regarding how much we need, anything above the RDA comes down to a matter of opinion, but the figure I gave came from reviewed literature, as did all the data I presented.

Here are my references.

Nissen, S. L., and Sharp R.L., Effect of dietary supplements on lean mass and strength gains with resistance exercise: a meta-analysis. Journal of Applied Physiology 94: 651ñ659, 2003.

K. Vandenberghe, M. Goris, P. Van Hecke, M. Van Leemputte, L. Vangerven and P. Hespel Long-term creatine intake is beneficial to muscle performance during resistance training Journal of Applied Physiology 83:2055-2063, 1997.

Wilson, G. J., Wilson, J. M., and Manninen, A. H. Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate on exercise performance and body composition across varying levels of age, sex, and training experience: A review. Nutrition & Metabolism 2008, 5:1

Dreyer HC, Fujita S, Cadenas JG, Chinkes DL, Volpi E, Rasmussen BB. Resistance exercise increases AMPK activity and reduces 4E-BP1 phosphorylation and protein synthesis in human skeletal muscle. J Physiology 576: 613ñ624, 2006.

Phillips SM, Tipton KD, Aarsland A, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. American Journal of Physiology Endocrinology Metabolism 273: E99ñE107, 1997.

IMO, a balanced diet with the occasional shake or bar is the best way to go. Excessive amounts may just hurt your wallet and not do much good.

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In the spirit of good debate:  which of these is supposed to back your claims regarding protein intake? 

RDA is basically an opinion as well, and as such either has or doesn't have good research behind it.  Don't forget it's a value that is supposed to be applied to all people, not strength athletes - and research would indicate that it's a pretty bad assumption to think that the dietary requirements for a couch potato are the same for an elite PL or strongman.

Oh, and I'm focusing on the claims about protein for a simple reason:  if you don't get your basic diet dialed in, all the supplements in the world (except maybe teh roydz) won't fix your problems. 

Debate is good and I am happy to play along.

It is genrally accepted that protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above the recommended daily protein intake requirements. We are not arguing about this fact. So, what we really want to know by having this debate, is how much protein do we need for increased muscle mass/lean mass. 

P. W. Lemon et. al. (1) provide data which indicate that during the early stages of intensive bodybuilding training, protein needs are approximately 100% greater than current recommendations but that protein intake increases from 1.35 to 2.62 g.kg-1.day-1 do not enhance muscle mass/strength gains, at least during the 1st mo of training. 

Nessein and Sharp (2) provide data from a meta analysis that demonstrates how " Protein supplementation resulted in a nonsignificant increase in net lean mass gain" and a "decrease in net strength gain of 0.18%/wk".  In this study the athelets were trained and untrained and ranged in age from 19 to 56 years of age.

The American College of Sports Medicine (3) states that "Protein recommendations for endurance and strengthtrained athletes range from 1.2 to 1.7 gIkgj1 body weightIdj1.

And your reference states that we need much more.  The truth of the matter is that we need what works for us as individuals.  For my money, a few extra egg whites and an extra glass of skim milk or two will probably do the trick.  But if mega doses work for you, by all means, keep them going.

References:
1.  P. W. Lemon, M. A. Tarnopolsky, J. D. MacDougall and S. A. AtkinsonJ Appl Physiol 73: 767-775, 1992

2. Nissen, S. L., and Sharp R.L., Effect of dietary supplements on lean mass and strength gains with resistance exercise: a meta-analysis. Journal of Applied Physiology 94: 651ñ659, 2003.

3. Nutrition and Athletic Performance. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2009 Mar;41(3):709-31.

Jordan Linteris wrote:

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I am a fragile little guy.

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 Up your protein intake.

briangodsen wrote:

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" a few extra egg whites and an extra glass of skim milk or two will probably do the trick "

-This statement cancels everything else out. This is America. We drink whole milk and eat whole eggs. This is how we get the whole job done. Try chopping down a tree after drinking skim milk. Can't be done. It's science.

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LOL!!!  It IS science!  The experiment even had the guys wear flannel and they still couldn't do it on only skim milk.  Not even flannel saved them!

....wow....